THIS PAGE HAS BEEN ACTIVATED AS THE NEW STATESMAN BLOG IS NOW CLOSED FOR COMMENTS
At 10am this morning, the New Statesman finally closed the Mark Lynas thread on their website after 1715 comments had been added over a period of five months. I don’t know whether this constitutes any kind of a record, but gratitude is certainly due to the editor of of the New Statesman for hosting the discussion so patiently and also for publishing articles from Dr David Whitehouse and Mark Lynas that have created so much interest.
This page is now live, and anyone who would like to continue the discussion here is welcome to do so. I have copied the most recent contributions at the New Statesman as the first comment for the sake of convenience. If you want to refer back to either of the original threads, then you can find them here:
Dr David Whitehouse’s article can be found here with all 1289 comments.
Mark Lynas’ attempted refutation can be found here with 1715 comments.
Welcome to Harmless Sky, and happy blogging.
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PS You really should pay attention, Robin. I daresay your mother warned you about this :-)
Peter Martin, further my 4337, responding to your 4332 whinge about me using excessive upper case and bold font emphasis: I’ve since mollified myself into thinking that you could be right and that you might even be encouraging me by saying: I’d [Bob_FJ] be better advised to use them [such excessive emphasis] a little less. (although in detail, whilst you brought it up here, this relates rather more to this other parallel thread here)
OK; So here are my primary sextet of issues that I repeat, in their fundamentally original form, (in post 73, a la link above, except with some few emphasise totally removed), that for those issues, in my opinion you have repeatedly evaded any appropriate response:
1) Please clarify what you mean by your apparent accusation of me: “doctoring the BOM graphs”.
2) Please confirm that you agree that the BOM graphics that I have presented in 69, 62 & 60 show no correlation in the state of Victoria between monthly average maximum temperatures and global warming.
3) Please confirm that you agree that the BOM graphic link that you have presented in 70 shows no correlation in the state of Victoria between the number of very hot days and global warming.
4) Please confirm that you agree that the BOM graphics that I have presented in 60 show no correlation in the state of Victoria between yearly average maximum temperatures and severe bush fires, (or global warming), as far back as 1910, (The biggest was in 1851; Black Thursday)
I guess you will continue to evade these issues, so here are some alternative entertainments:
5) Please advise if you really meant to write in your 65, “But when they come from Central Australia [the north winds] they’ll be much hotter, dryer and stronger.”, and if you still believe this to be true.
6) If your answer to 5) is that you believe a “hotter desert centre” will result in stronger north winds, would you please advise why it was that when the airflow from there was very gentle during the January 3-day heatwave in Melbourne, the temperatures slowly built-up as follows: day one; ~43C, day two; ~44C & day three; ~45C?
Pete; without the excessive textural emphasis that I’ve previously applied, is there any chance that you could respond to these six primary issues?
Robin Reur 4349,
What an excellent lucid post of yours!
But, however, whatsoever, and moreover, and even whatnot; whether Pete is capable of taking-it-in is perhaps doubtful. (based on my observations so-far)
I really enjoyed your final words:
I’m wondering if you might be wondering if Pete has an OCD that embraces a “mother influenced complex”: I don’t mean an all-out O-Rex, but some sort of neuronal problem there. I recall that he has quoted “Mummy” a few times!
Good point, Peter – perhaps I should be paying attention. Apologies.
Nonetheless, the complete failure of Europe’s emissions (CO2) trading scheme is remarkable (and little recognised) – Spiegel Online even suggested that the scheme might have the effect of increasing overall CO2 emissions. As I noted at 4310 – I wonder if anyone is telling Obama?
Now my PS, Peter :-)
You do go on to refer to “the end result [being] a reduction of CO2 emissions”. Hmm … not much sign of that. And I’m rather dubious about European governments doing much to reduce the supply of permits – your “easy fix”.
Hi everyone.
I am currently writing an article on the benefits of renewable wave and tidal power. My experience lies mostly in the UK so I want to find out what other countries are currently doing-or are planning.
Do any of you have any expertise in this area in your respective countries or can point me to various authoritative links/contacts in the US or Australia?
Note the article is specifically concerning ‘sea based;’ renewable energy so hydro electric on non tidal rivers is off subject. Thanks for your help
Tonyb
Tonyb,
Wave and tidal power are off limits to the Eco-nuts…..might interfere with the mating habits of sea slug. Over the last 14 months I’ve come to realize that the Greens just simply oppose anything and everything that would benefit mankind.
Their ultimate goal is to eradicate the human species. Eco-warrior Ted (The Swimmer) Kennedy opposed offshore wind power off the coast of Massachusetts as it interfered with his personal yachting area. You simply can’t win with these guys. No option is acceptable apart from for the elimination of Homo sapiens from the planet.
Still, I’d like to see what you’ve come up with, (Engineering curiosity).
Brute
We’ve had the same problems with the anti nuclear power station brigade. As they are also against Coal fired power stations it is difficult to know what they expect the base load electrical capacity of a major industrial nation to consist of. There has been some recent signs of movement in the anti nuclear stance as a few realists within Greenpeace realise we need something.
I think I have expressed my enthusiasm for wave/tidal power here before, although it does have its drawbacks as waves and tides arent always providing energy and there is a problem with both the environment and transmission.
Tonyb
OT
I imagine you guys heard about this when it originally came out a month ago. Still it’s nice to know that the entire world hasn’t given up on common sense (just our western bits).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/25/jstor_climate_report_translation/
Seeing as Darwin is still in the news it may be of interest to look at his fascinating work recording the climate of the time-from around 1830. This link leads to an article about his climate records
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/ICECAP-200YEARSOFCHARLESDARWIN.pdf
This link leads to ALL of Darwins works as they are now available online. The climate seems as variable then as it does now, but I guess most of us already know that
http://darwin-online.org.uk/majorworks.html
Barleysane.
Yes I had read the Japanese account before but this was a much clearer record of their work. I think the Chinese Russians and Indians feel much the same, although some would say no doubt that is a political position to help them to avoid cutting their own carbon emissions.
Tonyb
Given the journal it’s in i half expect to hear cries of “big oil” etc.
Barleysane
It seems genuine but it would be good to see it confirmed and translated by another source. As i say above the version I saw was not quite so forthright but it would have been a very quick translation so perhaps that was why.
If the report is true it is very significant as Japan would be the first western nation to break ranks.
Tonyb
TonyB: re your 4356
I found this account about activity off the Oregon Coast (north Pacific).
Here’s something from Australia as well.
One more.
OK, even one more.
JZ Smith
Those are great links-thanks very much.
Tonyb
TonyB,
I think San Diego has a lot of wave power research going on here. I know I remember a year or two ago a high school student won a national science award for a concept to harness wave and tidal power for power generation.
Here is another link I found.
Here is another article I saw today.
Interesting view on AGW from the Canada Free Press. Robin, you might be especially interested.
Peter Martin,
I noticed recently that over at Gristmill you decided to slander Max accusing him of creating a false identity, or sockpuppet in the nom de blog of “Burn the Witch”, whom declared support for his rational comments. However, then, totally irrationally, you then put-in an escape clause that if it was not actually Max doing this invention, then it must be Black Wallaby, (AKA Bob_FJ)
Max seems to have taken a break both here and at Gristmill, but I have put-in a word over there, showing that the said sockpuppet can be communicated by Email, if you wish to, and that he is almost certainly a resident of the USA. (Not resident in Switzerland or Oz)
BTW, I’m still waiting for you to respond to the issue that you appear to have called me a liar WRT Oz BOM data.
Bob_FJ,
I think you must have some sort of paranoia. I don’t think I’ve used the word liar. Maybe you have a guilty conscience?
Anyway about the sockpuppetry: This was the piece that made me smile!
I would like to thank Max and Black Wallaby for providing a rational, mature, and thoughtful effort in the face of curious resistance from those who should welcome skepticism and critical inquiry.
As a recent lurker “unlurked” and as someone who is looking for intellectually honest discussion on this subject to refine my opinion, you two have my thanks. I will continue to look for your comments in particular and hope that your opposition rises to your level of discussion.
Is that suspicious or what?
PS I have my suspicions too about ‘Barelysane’!
Peter
I’m afraid i’m not a second account of anyone else on this board. The email address that goes with my comments and is i assume visible to the site owner can verify that (along with my IP address).
This name has been going for quite a while on many different websites.
So i’m afraid i’m just another individual that has converted from believer to skeptic/realist based on the data i’ve come across.
p.s. I’d also be interested to see your replies Bob_FJs 6 questions from the other thread :)
Bob_FJ,
I’m afraid that I’m at a complete loss as to Peter Martin’s obsession regarding Max’s “true identity”. After all, a rose by any other name……..or something such as that.
Does being a citizen of the US, Switzerland or Australia make his arguement any less/more valid? What does it matter where he hangs his hat?
Does this violate some sort Internet comment code of ethics?
Please explain Mr. Martin’s fascination.
Brute,
I think Peter Martin raises a valid point. In fact over the last year he’s raised so many valid points,and shown so much patience in trying to explain the science of global warming to you all that I just don’t know why he bothers!
I’m pleased he does though. I really look forward to Peter’s posts. They are just so interesting and well researched. Its a standard you should all aspire to.
For a long time I used to be convinced that Global warming was all a hoax but it didn’t take long for Peter’s arguments to alter my opinion. I resigned from the Republican Party,joined the Democratic Party and campaigned tirelessly for President Obama in last year’s election.
Thank you Peter!
4371
Nice post Peter-if you’d been a little less gushing we might have believed it :)
TonyB
I see……avoidance tactic to change the subject and divert the discussion from addressing valid points.
>”If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullshit”
Right Pete?
Tony B,
Really, I’m not Peter! Here is a my photo. I’m sure Peter is much more handsome than me.
Us sockpuppets do have feelings too you know!
I think Peter Martin has gotten to be in a silly mood this morning. Here’s a picture of me too.
I might look to be from Switzerland but I do spell skeptical with a K so that must be proof that I’m a real dinky-di American!