THIS PAGE HAS BEEN ACTIVATED AS THE NEW STATESMAN BLOG IS NOW CLOSED FOR COMMENTS
At 10am this morning, the New Statesman finally closed the Mark Lynas thread on their website after 1715 comments had been added over a period of five months. I don’t know whether this constitutes any kind of a record, but gratitude is certainly due to the editor of of the New Statesman for hosting the discussion so patiently and also for publishing articles from Dr David Whitehouse and Mark Lynas that have created so much interest.
This page is now live, and anyone who would like to continue the discussion here is welcome to do so. I have copied the most recent contributions at the New Statesman as the first comment for the sake of convenience. If you want to refer back to either of the original threads, then you can find them here:
Dr David Whitehouse’s article can be found here with all 1289 comments.
Mark Lynas’ attempted refutation can be found here with 1715 comments.
Welcome to Harmless Sky, and happy blogging.
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10,000 Responses to “Continuation of the New Statesman Whitehouse/Lynas blogs.”
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Here I am enjoying some of the global warming courtesy of Al Gore and friends…..(photo by Mrs. Brute).
TonyB
Looks like the IPCC Bali climate talks (in the posh resort of Nusa Dua, Bali) will be mostly hot air.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/26/un-climate-existential-crisis
IPCC cites the need to “rebuild trust” (this might take a bit more than just talk).
Following the Copenhagen failure, Indonesia’s foreign minister Marty Natalegawa told a news conference:
It appears that the latest gimmick is “Blue Carbon”
http://www.unep.org/Documents.Multilingual/Default.asp?DocumentID=612&ArticleID=6478&l=en&t=long
.
This was all covered in a report from last October:
“Mainstream the ‘ocean’ dimension into global climate change initiatives…?”
Hmmm…
(Sounds a lot better than a carbon tax.)
Max
Figures…………Al Gore has been in hiding since Copenhagen.
No tornadoes in February 2010
http://www.norman.noaa.gov/2010/03/no-tornadoes-in-february-2010/
photo by Mrs. Brute
Are you sure she hadn’t just thrown you out for making improper advances? :-)
The next Warmist talking point will be that the earthquakes shortened the days, causing less light to impact the Earth’s surface, overwhelming the effect of CO2 warming, causing the cooling trend the Earth has been experiencing for the last 12 years.
Chilean Quake Likely Shifted Earth’s Axis, NASA Scientist Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aLAUn4Gy92ss
Feb 27, 2010
Dr. Richard Lindzen’s Talk at Fermilab
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/02/dr-richard-lindzens-talk-at-fermilab.html
Brute #9777
Sorry I didn’t comment earlier but I had to go for a 12 hour counselling session after seeing your photo.
Tonyb
I’ll have to post the photos of the naked snow thrower completion (always a crowd pleaser)…….or naked custom high performance snowmobile races.
I’ve tried the Al Gore weight loss plan……..As you can see from the snorkeling photo, it works about as well as his carbon trading schemes.
From the supercharged snowmobile to the 424 horsepower snow removal machine, I’d say Al Gore’s global warming job program are having a positive effect on the Brute’s personal economic outlook.
If the global warming keeps up, I’ll soon have a entire new line of custom high performance snow machines to deal with the effects of “climate change”.
A “win win” situation………for my pocketbook.
PeterM
At the recent Bali meeting, several IPCC delegates were “licking their wounds” following the Climategate (and subsequent) revelations and the Copenhagen fiasco. The headline read:
Rebuilding trust will be a formidable task, for the following reasons:
IPCC has lied to us about disappearing glaciers in the Himalayas, keeping the false claim in its report even after it was shown to be incorrect
IPCC has lied to us about the Amazon forest being destroyed by AGW
IPCC has lied to us about the extent of melting of non-polar glaciers, relying on anecdotal statements from mountain climbers rather than scientific studies
IPCC has lied to us about increased tropical storms and other severe weather resulting from AGW
IPCC has lied to us in claiming an accelerated rate of sea level rise due to AGW when there has been no observed acceleration
IPCC has lied to us about the adverse effects of AGW on African agriculture, citing a report by an environmental think tank, rather than a scientific study
IPCC has lied to us about the 20th century being the warmest in 1300 years, using discredited studies with fudged data as the basis for its claim
IPCC claimed rising sea levels endanger the 55 percent of the Netherlands it says is below sea level. The portion of the Netherlands below sea level actually is 20 percent.
In addition, the Climategate revelations showed that
The HadCRUT surface temperature record used by IPCC to show accelerated warming in the latter 20th century has been manipulated with the raw data discarded; much of the data for China, for example, has been fabricated
A relatively small cabal of highly influential climate scientists, whose work is cited throughout the IPCC report, have colluded to manipulate the data to make AGW appear serious, hide raw data from outside scrutiny and eliminate dissenting opinion
Attempts are being made to salvage the IPCC reputation by blaming a few renegade scientists, but it has become clear that it is not only a case of “bad scientists”, but also of “bad science” and, more importantly, a corrupted process, run by IPCC.
Rebuilding trust can only occur if IPCC openly concedes that many of the claims in its latest report are not founded on sound science and initiates a completely transparent independent audit of its report.
Will this happen, or will IPCC attempt to rebuild trust by sacrificing a few “bad scientists” and covering up the “bad science” in its report?
I believe that IPCC will choose the latter approach in a frantic attempt to rebuild trust.
I also believe that it will fail.
What do you think, Peter?
Max
Max,
I’m pleasantly surprised you have to itemise ” IPCC lies”. Is this a slight softening from your previous “its all lies” line?
There is one valid criticism that you might have made of some of the comments in the CRU emails: that the politically naive scientific community hasn’t done enough to prevent its scientific message being discredited by underhand methods.
Because , surely, the worst possible outcome would be that their findings are disregarded even though they are substantially correct. Or perhaps you don’t agree?
PeterM
The IPCC “lies”, which I enumerated, are simply a large number of those that have been exposed to date.
There will undoubtedly be others.
At the same time, IPCC has undoubtedly reported some things that are not “lies”.
All effective propaganda starts off with a grain of truth, as both Lenin and Goebbels understood very well.
You write “the worst possible outcome would be that their [IPCC] findings are disregarded even though they are substantially correct”, and I have to disagree.
I think “the worst possible outcome would be that their findings” are blindly swallowed and subsequent actions are taken that destroy the already fragile world economy “even though they are substantially” incorrect.
With all the recent revelations of sloppy and manipulated science behind the IPCC claims, the current cooling trend despite record increase in CO2 and the resulting turning of the tide on AGW this now seems much less likely than it did a year ago.
Max
Coldest winter for more than 30 years… but Met Office defends its long range forecast
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254675/Weather.html
Call for Knut to face cut:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/call-for-knut-to-face-cut-20100303-pixz.html
I’m speechless!
Further my 9790:
Click URL if no image appears:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/3163025438_cac2609d71_o.jpg
Here is an interesting apparently edited post over at RC, on the “Close encounters of the absurd kind” thread:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bev A 791 :
3 March 2010 at 10:17 AM
772 Completely Fed Up says:
3 March 2010 at 5:53 AM
…
I’d cut back on the histrionics, Ed.
____________________
Oh please CFU. You are really tiresome. Have you ever made a post that contained anything other than histrionics? I’m almost convinced that you’re a troll who is trying to make those of us who support the science look vindictive and childish.
I love the science discussions here, but your personal attacks and general manner are, to say the least, counter productive. Either you’re the angriest most self righteous person I’ve ever encountered or a troll. Either way, tone it down. Between you and BPL predicting the end of civilization in forty years you’re giving the denialists a lot of fodder.
Simple physics is on our side. We don’t need to engage in such hyperbole.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not to entirely agree with Bev; Max, you may be particularly amused by Bev’s secondary reference to Barton Paul Levenson. I agree that fruitcakes such as CFU and BPL, (oh, and BTW Peter Martin & Ian Forrester etc), do a great deal of damage to the alarmist cause. Let them continue whilst some of you are prepared to engage with them!
Bob_FJ
Here is my take on these guys you mention.
It’s actually fun and challenging to debate with the likes of BPL, Ray Ladbury, David B. Benson and Patrick 027, all of whom understand quite a bit of the science (but maybe not quite as much as they think). PeterM is also usually well informed, but slips into the political sidetrack too easily. Ian Forrester, Hank Roberts, Doug Bostrom, CFU and several others get too emotional and, therefore, have difficulty engaging in a rational discussion without personally attacking their debate partner.
The one thing these guys all hate is facts.
When you get to the “pros” like Tamino or Gavin, they have their pre-cooked stories all ready, but even they make silly mistakes.
Bob, (as you know) the key issue is that all these guys are trying desperately to defend a position that is not based on sound science based on empirical evidence, but rather on model simulations and fabricated gobbledygook, so all you have to do is dig until you find the weak spot in their arguments. Sometimes it is not so easy to find, but it is always there if you dig deep enough.
This is, quite simply, because the “science” supporting the dangerous AGW premise is flawed and weak.
Max
Hi Max, you just mentioned Tamino, (Grant Foster), and strangely for the very first time ever, I’ve just posted a comment over there on his site in frustration at Ray Ladbury not responding to my enquiry at RC. I can’t stop smiling about how Tamino might react, or ignore, whatever!
Very few studies have been done so far on whether acupuncture has the ability to help with the fertility of men. Of course, there is some evidence that has come up that suggest that acupuncture and fertility of men can be linked together. The best part about it is that acupuncture could actually increase the amount of fertility in a man without causing them to have any kind of behavioral side affects or causing increased sexual desire. Doctors do think that acupuncture does lead to an increase in the number of sperm count found in the body. They also said that this could even help improve very slight structural defects. So why doesn’t everyone jump on board this acupuncture band wagon? Why aren’t all lower sperm count men out there looking into this? This has something to do with the other methods that are out there.
Now that’s how you veer completely OT, Peter take note :)
Barelysane,
It seems like this guy is having some virility issues and crying out……he has somehow lost his manhood……Maybe gender confusion or some other type of mental instability.
Where is your compassion?
Nothing raw oysters and watching a few hundred hours Rugby won’t straighten out.
Brute
You’re right, i’m being completely heartless. So to make up can suggest “Buy viagra online with no prescription” instead of acupuncture you use a weak (very weak) electric current generated by electrolysis instead of acupuncture. I believe such devices are available for sale relative cheaply (compared to acupuncture) and can be used in the comfort of your own home.
I’m not completely sure about your suggestion of raw oysters and rugby though. Aside from the potentially unpleasent effects of shellfish generally. Exposing a man to a large quantity of aphrodisiacs and several hundred hours of large men getting sweaty together may have the reverse effect of “straighten out”. Unless of course thats his preference anyway, though considering the concerns about fertility probably not.
Barelysane,
Yes, I see. I concede the point.
Although, this poor fellow seems to be suffering from some form sexual dysfunction regardless of his choice as to partner gender.
My prescription would still be several large servings of raw oysters with the substitute option of numerous hours viewing Women’s Lingerie Football (American style).
Must be a “regional anomaly”……..
More than 50 ships stuck in Baltic Sea ice: maritime authorities
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=TX-PAR-HOJ05&show_article=1
Bob_FJ (9789)
Poor Knut is facing a very sad operation:
Knut and Giovanna have the same grandfather?
Hell, half the mountain villagers in many Cantons here fit into that category.
(And besides, it’s only one grandparent out of four.)
Max
acupuncture?
How? And more importantly, where?
[It’s going to be very difficult tying this in with global warming, so I’m not even going to try.]
Max