This is a continuation of a remarkable thread that has now received 10,000 comments running to well over a million words. Unfortunately its size has become a problem and this is the reason for the move.
The history of the New Statesman thread goes back to December 2007 when Dr David Whitehouse wrote a very influential article for that publication posing the question Has Global Warming Stopped? Later, Mark Lynas, the magazine’s environment correspondent, wrote a furious reply, Has Global Warming Really Stopped?
By the time the New Statesman closed the blogs associated with these articles they had received just over 3000 comments, many from people who had become regular contributors to a wide-ranging discussion of the evidence for anthropogenic climate change, its implications for public policy and the economy. At that stage I provided a new home for the discussion at Harmless Sky.
Comments are now closed on the old thread. If you want to refer to comments there then it is easy to do so by left-clicking on the comment number, selecting ‘Copy Link Location’ and then setting up a link in the normal way.
Here’s to the next 10,000 comments.
Useful links:
Dr David Whitehouse’s article can be found here with 1289 comments.
Mark Lynas’ attempted refutation can be found here with 1715 comments.
The original Continuation of the New Statesman Whitehouse/Lynas blogs thread is here with 10,000 comments.
Here’s the latest UN promotion on global warming presented by Rachel Sequoia, United Nations Secretary General on climate change.
“Share The Air” Presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyrFWbGiGOc&feature=youtu.be
Brute
Great con job by this little girl!
(Beats the hell out of setting up a lemonade stand.)
Max
The latest unsmoothed global sea level data from JASON shows a sharp downtick and slight downtrend
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/17/doing-it-yourself-the-latest-global-sea-level-data-from-jason-shows-a-sharp-downtick-and-downtrend/#more-38140
Sea Level Rise: Still Slowing Down
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2011/04/07/sea-level-rise-still-slowing-down/
Brute
Last year, together with a colleague, I produced a chart
of sea level showing the trend over the lasst five years. This was for presentation to a UK govt department.
It wass remarkably sim ilar5 to this one just posted on wUWT
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7755/jasontgcal2010rel4.jpg
Mrs. Brute and I are just back from 10 days in the Caribbean.
Doesn’t look like I missed much.
Are you guys slowing down on me?
Blown promises
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/27/blown-promises/#more-38791
Thanks for the Link Brute. Some of the councils in the UK push the bounds of stupidity beyond what any reasonable person could ever imagine. The sad thing is we don’t have enough Council Tax payers complaining enough. And those that are complaining are at present directing their ire in the wrong direction. Some of the Council exec’s experienced a doubling or trebling of their salaries during the Labour years, but we the Council Tax payers have witness an appalling decline in value for money.
We have achieved a critical mass when it comes to challenging DAGW, PeterM’s silence being an indication of this. But the bogus policy reactions continue, and more and more people are suddenly realising the there are a number of interrelated issues that all need the same cure.
For the world they are spending on DAGW needs to stop, and excessive tax on energy needs to be removed. Support for Banks needs to stop and bad banks and bad conglomerates need to be allowed to fail. For most of the west democracy needs to be restored. For the US as a republic you have the rule of the Law, you have primaries for you elections and have half a chance of kicking out overbearing Government and those individuals that support it. I never thought I would envy the US election method, but as our last election demonstrated we have no opposition to vote for, just a large mob who have given all law making powers to the unelected EU commission.
This article in the spectator by Fraser Nelson is on a theme that I have mentioned quite often. A commenter mention’s that Fraser is only halfway there with his understanding and I agree. In fact as is often the case the comments are more interesting than the article itself. Many commentators unfortunately see greater regulation as the cure, demonstrating that they misunderstand the issues and misunderstand that regulation and overbearing government is the root cause of the West’s issues.
Peter,
The salient point in my mind is not that the council wastes a tremendous amount of other people’s money/spends money foolishly……that’s a given…..but more importantly is the lousy performance of the windmills.
My 8 year old niece could calculate the potential performance of these “green” monstrosities and realize that they are, for all intents and purposes, a poor engineering decision.
Now, that being said, did these “wise” council members purposely waste the taxpayers (ratepayers) hard earned money on these glorified Cuisinarts?
Or, were they attempting to “make a statement”? Bowing at the altar of “green” correctness?
Is a council member or one of their close friends/relatives in the windmill business?
Regardless, the windmill is an extremely poor choice of method for generating electricity (from an engineering standpoint).
Either they already were aware of this fact and decided to ignore it or are hopelessly incompetent.
Someone should be on trial for malfeasance in office.
Peter and Brute.
Cheap energy is at the very heart of western economies and I dare say the prosperity it has brought has been in large part responsible for the freedoms and democracy we have enjoyed-when you are poor you have little time for such things.
Here we come to a great conundrum, in as much for decades the West has been transferring large chunks of our money towards energy suppliers who don’t like us-Russia and the Middle east being good examples. In turn, our money has helped to build them up.
In recent years the cost of energy has become a considerable burden on us- helped by our own profligate attitudes. As a result the leader of the West-the US- is mired in a debt trap so deep it is difficult to see how they can dig themselves out of it UNLESS they manage to obtain cheap sources of energy.
In this respect the search for renewables (I will add the words cheap reliable and plentiful) is surely at the heart of what the West needs to do if it is to maintain our way of life.
Incidentally, it is an economic system that for all its imperfections has raised the quality of life of much of the third world.
So the conundrum is that we need Renewables but unfortunately the words cheap, reliable and plentiful can’t be appended to it.
Personally, I think the US needs to stop its spending on the increasingly threabare notion of CAGW and use that money to lead the West on an Apollo style race to secure alternative forms of energy before we become permanently damaged and weakened by highly expensive sources of supply from Countries that wil not hesitate to use it for their own political ends.
That in turn will help to satisfy the delusional carbon crowd. so everyone is a winner (exept the oil suppliers)
Unfortunately we have gone down a blind alley of staggering proportions with our concentration on silly windmills.
Tonyb
Tony,
On tax subsidies: I don’t look at subsidies as “free” gifts of money from the state to corporations. “Subsidies” simply mean that government steals fewer profits from certain corporations.
I found this article interesting this morning…………
Obama drops climate change talk as green movement fizzles
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-goldberg-20110427,0,2430644.story
By the way, has anyone calculated the “carbon footprint” of climate crusader Prince Charlie’s son’s wedding?
How many starving african children could be fed with the money expended on this royal wedding?
What a load his feined “concern” is over environmental/humanitarianism issues……….
Brute
Here’s one estimate of the royal wedding carbon footprint:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8472283/What-is-the-carbon-footprint-of-the-royal-wedding.html
Here’s another one that’s over 2x as high
http://www.channel24.co.za/Royal-Wedding/News/The-royal-wedding-carbon-footprint-20110426-3
At any rate, Prince Charles tried his best to “keep it down” by turning off the lights when they left the room and, what the hell, it was still only a fraction of Al Gore’s annual carbon footprint.
Max
Max
I simply don’t care how much carbon was emitted-it was an absolutely wonderful wedding.
[TonyN: Here! here!]
Incidentally the bride came from my home village and I was born in Windsor so I’m practically Royalty myself…
tonyb
TonyB (and TonyN)
Yes. It was a wonderful wedding. And Kate just has to be everyone’s darling (like Diana was at the time, but without the “frightened deer in the headlights” look).
My wife watched the whole thing on CNN (Swiss TV also carried it, as did the German TV). It was spectacular. In addition to Kate, I enjoyed watching the horses most.
I think Brute’s remark was more intended for Prince Charles, who has at times gotten involved in the “climate debate” (without really having any clue what he was talking about) rather than at the wedding couple, who have both wisely steered clear of this topic.
I wish them both all the best.
Max
Hee, Hee……..
Yes, it was a beautiful wedding. I didn’t watch it, just news blurbs here and there.
I pride myself on being a good judge of character and my opinion is that the prince (Duke of Cambridge is it?) is a well adjusted, reasonable, young man. The new duchess seems to be from outward appearances, down to earth, genuine (and frankly, smoking hot) young woman.
My best to them both.
Seem like real classy kids……not pompous, arrogant, stuck-up snobs…………like Prince Chuck….
Hey Brute,
What is going on with Obama’s former green jobs czar, Van Jones?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/25/obama-adviser-van-jones-helping-push-rights-mother-nature/
Sounds scary – and George Soros is apparently involved, as well.
Max
Hey Max,
Jones is nothing more than a two bit hustler with a fancy car and an Armani suit.
He’s a parasite…….a leech……
He and other like him make money by being professional malcontents (community organizers).
TonyB,
Once again, I think you’ve probably failed to grasp the fundamental concept, this time with your comment that:
“…. he bride came from my home village and I was born in Windsor so I’m practically Royalty myself…”
A kitten may be born in a kipper box but would it really grow up to be a herring?
Hey Pete,
I’d have figured that you’d be boycotting all Australian social services (handouts) this month as a form of protest of the monarchial system and royal wedding………………but I suppose your principles are not so noble when it comes to collecting unearned public largesse………
Would I be correct?
Have you switched off all of the electricity to your home yet in your effort to combat global warming?
Have you traded in your auto for a bicycle yet?
Did you cancel your airline tickets for your holiday this summer?
My, you are a man of character I must say.
PeterM
When Tonyb said
“I’m practically Royalty myself”
do you not think he may have been joking?
Of course, if he really is blue-blooded, I’ll have to apologise and hope I still get invited to his next garden party…
JamesP
I didn’t put a :) because I thought it was obvious I was joking about being royalty.
Greenies can be very serious can’t they?
tonyb
A joke? OK I see. But, English comedians are usually quite funny. I don’t think someone like Michael McIntyre would pinch a joke like that.
You need to work on your material a bit. Something like: a Australian class is asked to write an essay containing these four elements: sex, mystery, religion, and royalty.
The teacher chose the best attempt which was also the shortest.
“My God,” said the Princess, “I’m pregnant. I wonder whose it is?”
PS
Aussies have a GSOH but apparently the Palace don’t quite see the funny side.
Read on!
http://www.infowars.com/royal-family-enforces-media-embargo-against-australia-to-prevent-nazi-jokes/
Hypocrite George Monbiot Condemns Large, Expensive Homes – Except His Own.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/hypocrite-george-monbiot-condemns-large-expensive-homes-%E2%80%93-except-his-own.html