This is a continuation of a remarkable thread that has now received 10,000 comments running to well over a million words. Unfortunately its size has become a problem and this is the reason for the move.
The history of the New Statesman thread goes back to December 2007 when Dr David Whitehouse wrote a very influential article for that publication posing the question Has Global Warming Stopped? Later, Mark Lynas, the magazine’s environment correspondent, wrote a furious reply, Has Global Warming Really Stopped?
By the time the New Statesman closed the blogs associated with these articles they had received just over 3000 comments, many from people who had become regular contributors to a wide-ranging discussion of the evidence for anthropogenic climate change, its implications for public policy and the economy. At that stage I provided a new home for the discussion at Harmless Sky.
Comments are now closed on the old thread. If you want to refer to comments there then it is easy to do so by left-clicking on the comment number, selecting ‘Copy Link Location’ and then setting up a link in the normal way.
Here’s to the next 10,000 comments.
Useful links:
Dr David Whitehouse’s article can be found here with 1289 comments.
Mark Lynas’ attempted refutation can be found here with 1715 comments.
The original Continuation of the New Statesman Whitehouse/Lynas blogs thread is here with 10,000 comments.
New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism…
http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html
Alaska researcher who documented polar bears demise in Arctic placed on leave…
http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-arctic-scientist-under-investigation-082217993.html
Hi all,
It’s been so long since I’ve visited, I don’t recognize some of you!
I saw that James Spencer has a new study (saw artical in irish Times) saying that the atmophere sheds off far more heat than any of the clomate models allow for. ptetty well drives a stake through the heart of the warmist argument.
JZ
Here’s a link to the artical above:
http://www.irishweatheronline.com/news/climate-news/u-s-scientists-pour-cold-water-on-rapid-global-warming-theory/28942.html/comment-page-1
Anyone interested in the wind energy debate should take a look at this article
http://www.counterpunch.org/bryce07292011.html
which gathers fascinating information from the US, Canada, New Zealand, Wales, Ireland, Denmark and Austria. What makes it doubly interesting is that Counterpunch is a US website so far to the left that Brute would probably place it in NeverNeverLand. They’re open-minded though. One of their best writers used to work for Ronald Reagan.
Brute, there’s more to the left than just PeterM and your brother-in-law.
Brute #4227
The whole interview with the man who saw the dead polar bears can be found at
http://www.peer.org/docs/doi/7_28_11_Monnett-IG_interview_transcript.pdf
As an insight into the mind of climate scientists, it beats the climategate emails. Commenters at WUWT are comparing it to Monty Python, but that doesn’t do it justice
Geoff, I’ve just read the Monnett transcript and it’s excellent, surreal stuff – I particularly love the bit where they all start to argue about percentages. Definitely one for the collection.
Ahhhhh……..The ongoing saga of my wayward bother-in-law.
He’s out of work again.
The lovable Liberal is now on track to collect 99 additional weeks of “Obama money”………(unemployment/my tax dollars).
Polar Bear fallout: ‘Junk Science Unravels…The global warming fraud is coming apart faster than the alarmists can repackage and rebrand their fairy tale’
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/579823/201107281902/Junk-Science-Unravels.htm
There’s an easier-to-read formatted copy of the Monnett transcript here:
https://sites.google.com/site/mytranscriptbox/home/20110223_pe
Greetings all,
I thought I’d have a quick look in, and I see JZ has returned too, plus some fresh contributors….. Goody!
I see that Anagram Pete (aka Tempterrain and Peter Martin) is still at it.
Do you remember that during the Brisbane floods he insisted that the Wivenhoe Dam was properly administered and reduced potential flooding. Well, I don’t know if I was dozing at the time, but I remember hearing on radio a couple of weeks ago, preliminary results of an enquiry that found that the whole thing was poorly planned and badly executed, and resulted in increased flooding. It was alleged originally, that the main purpose of the dam was to protect Brisbane BTW.
I wonder if Pete might give his latest wisdom on this CO2 disaster.
Brute, Since the USA seems to be incapable of governing itself, might I suggest that you guys return to under the British Crown? You might have to rename that holiday thingy you have in early July, or perhaps create a new one though….. Salvation Day?
Bob,
I would embrace your suggestion but I dare say that the UK economy/political system is worse than we presently have here (so far). We Americans have a saying…….”out of the frying pan and into the fire”………….meaning, you’ve escaped one dangerous/unsuitable predicament only to find yourself in another……..so I’m cautious about what I wish for.
Last I read, the UK is now “rationing” health care due to budgetary shortfalls…………..”free” healthcare is great unless you’re denied access to it by the governing elite……..but I digress……….
I resigned myself to the fact that I am only capable (and required) to govern myself.
Unless something drastic is done about the “Kenyan Community Organizer” (impeachment/voted out of office), I’m afraid that anarchy will reign here.
On the bright side, there is a small group of “Tea Party” congressmen that have stopped Barrack ObaMao and his merry band of collectivists.
Aside from a dictatorial move, (I think that’s next) his hands are tied.
In the meantime, I’ve got plenty of ammo and canned goods.
Hey Brute,
At the risk of being slapped on the wrist by TonyN, might I suggest that you are treading several paths that you should consider more cautiously WRT the environment. When you say that you are hoarding canned food, might I remind you that such practice carries with it quite a high carbon footprint which is arguably socially irresponsible. Could I recommend to you that red lentils and rolled oats can be stored in large quantity over long time and both be rendered edible by simply soaking them in water? They may not be so enjoyable as say American tinned ’Stagg Chili With Beans’ that I enjoy here though. (whilst the sun shines, and whilst the Oz$ stands at around US$ 1.10). But please, do not think in self indulgence, and bear in mind that lentils PLUS oats provide a perfect balance of amino acids that define complete protein, together with many other nutrients and beneficial dietary fibre.
I also feel that your State anarchy may be resolved if that bossy loud Republican (wotsisname?) suffers complete failure of his vocal chords within the next day or so. If he becomes speechless to his minions below, then sanity may result.
Otherwise, the only sensible solution seems to be to call in the Queen to form a new government for you.
Bob,
As far as the rolled oats and wheat germ grass goes………..no thanks, I don’t eat Hippie food.
I like the queen; however, I already have one living with me (Mrs. Brute). I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
geoffchambers #4230 That link has a lot of interesting reading. I’m still puzzled as to why so many people can get so worked up over all the negative but emotional arguments against wind, yet the one fundamental and irrefutable argument, -that the don’t work- finds such little comment. Have we as a society become collectively incompetent? Or have we always been this way?
Alex #4235
Many thanks for posting the Monnett interview in a readable form. I gave it a plug on the Wattsupwiththat thread, where it was clear many commenters hadn’t read it.
Peter Geany #4240
As to why “so many people can get so worked up over all the negative but emotional arguments against wind” – isn’t it normal to react emotionally to things that annoy us? Those thousands turning up at anti-wind protests can’t all be energy experts.
The Soviet régime didn’t end as soon as people noticed that it wasn’t working. It was the emotionally stirring image of people dismantling a wall which did it.
That’s why I find things like the Monnett / Python sketch so interesting, and why I enjoy conversing here with eccentric characters like Brute, who in normal life I’d only encounter at the wrong end of his rifle.
We don’t know how this story will play out, but I bet the end won’t be rational.
Geoff,
I’d bet we’d be chums! I have many friends who’d I’d categorize as “Left”.
The only time you’d end up on the wrong end of my gun is if you were trying to hurt me or my family or steal from me.
My opinion is that too many people (particularly Liberals) don’t exercise common sense and logic when making decisions…….they base their decisions on emotion and diversion (that or they’re too busy watching America’s Greatest Dancing Idol on television).
I’ve run the numbers on solar and wind…………they don’t add up. I’m also at a loss to understand the thought process involved whereas “environmentalists” embrace pristine wilderness areas but will allow monolithic windmills to mar the very same landscape.
I resent my property (my wages) being stolen from me by government entities, to be wasted on boondoggles and political payoffs to wind farm proprietors. That’s why I’m angry.
Eccentric? I’d say more so prudent and practical.
Take the recent “debate” over the American debt limit increase (uppermost in my mind today)…………Why is it called a “limit”? Whenever the politicians reach the “limit”, they simply increase the limit……….nonsensical…….
No one……..not me, not you, not Cameron, not Obama, not parliment, not congress, not TonyN can spend more money than they receive………..it’s unworkable and at some point (I fear very, very soon), the entire Ponzi scheme will come crashing down like a house of cards.
When that happens, (not if) there will remain a very large number of people, that have been deluded for years and years, that this well of funding would continue to pump out dollars in the form of welfare (social protection)………………these people will have no other means.
They will become violent and desperate (see the French Revolution).
Also………..many, many people have come to me for help in solving “problems” (including my “Leftist” friends)………..they know I’m a loyal, stalwart friend and (maybe too) generous.
I’d wager in a time of desperate need, you will seek out people like myself…………..until that time, you’ll snicker and demonize…………referring to me as “eccentric”.
Brute #4242
I don’t snicker and demonise. Apart from that, I agree with practically everything you say.
On basing decisions on emotion, see my reply to Peter Geany at #4241. Emotion is a normal input into human decision-making. It’s a waste of time trying to counter people’s emotions with rational argument. (I have an emotional reaction to your talk of stocking up on ammo though. It’s a bit too Unabomber for me).
Further to the publication of the Charles Monnett interview, the Guardian have published the transcript of an interview in Jan 2011 with his colleague Jeffrey Gleason. The Guardian’s version is here, and I’ve posted a slightly easier-to-read version here.
geoff chambers and Brute
For a good read about the role of emotions in rational decision making read Descartes’ Error by Antonio Damasio.
Max
Alex Cull
Just finished reading the Gleason interview.
It comes across as a very gullible (and not too bright) avian ecologist who got duped into co-authoring a paper that turned out to become a “dead polar bears caused by AGW” media bombshell, all as a result of a corrupt taxpayer-funded process.
Ouch!
Max
Are all you Brits alright over there?
News is that the inmates have taken over and are burning the country to the ground………stealing everything in sight and attacking people indiscriminately.
It’s a good thing that the government confiscated all of the people’s guns……..
The latest on the situation in London is that NATO has declared a no-fly zone over the UK and declared that the looters are the true representatives of the government.
US president Barrack Obumbler is demanding that the Queen and the Prime Minister leave the country.
Brute, re London, it seems quiet enough here at the moment, although it’s still early evening, and anything could happen. My area’s been safe so far – nearest disturbances have been over at Ealing, a couple of miles away. Interesting times, eh? Brings home just how fragile (in the short term, anyway) civilisation can be – for the moment, we have food in the shops and an uninterrupted electricity supply (Chris Huhne is working on that last point, but for now we’re okay), so there are some reasons to be grateful, still.
Max, re the Gleason and Monnett interviews, it just amazed me how an account of such a single, very rare, incompletely understood and sloppily documented event could snowball, as it did, until it generated articles in the media such as this one from 2005, which states that “scientists believe such drownings are becoming widespread across the Arctic, an inevitable consequence of the doubling in the past 20 years of the proportion of polar bears having to swim in open seas.” It’s a demonstration of the awesome power of positive feedbacks in the world of climate science (mis)communications, if not in the actual climate itself.
Hi Brute I have just returned from Work, wouldn’t know anything is going on where I work in West London, although our train goes through Ealing I didn’t see much at 100mph. A fellow traveller works in Ealing for the Government and said it was like a war Zone.
This reminds me of the early 80’s when after a long period of financial mismanagement the country was on its knees and we had racial riots. Although we have again had a long period of financial mismanagement, this time it is different. We have thugs and organised gangs taking advantage of the publics low respect for authority and using a peaceful demonstration against the police after a shooting as a cover for criminal disorder. They are using todays enhanced communications to out witt the police.
The Police have been found wanting. In fact their performance so far has been pathetic. Of course the political elite are now lining up to see who can milk this for the greatest gain.
Of far greater importance is the financial crisis. But our chumps are not going to discuss that are they?
By the way a file has been sent to the director of Public Prosecutions about perverting the course of justice. It involves a certain cabinet minister with responsibility for energy. It may be serious as there is tittle tattle around about another disgraces Lib Dim coming back to replace said person.