This is a continuation of a remarkable thread that has now received 10,000 comments running to well over a million words. Unfortunately its size has become a problem and this is the reason for the move.
The history of the New Statesman thread goes back to December 2007 when Dr David Whitehouse wrote a very influential article for that publication posing the question Has Global Warming Stopped? Later, Mark Lynas, the magazine’s environment correspondent, wrote a furious reply, Has Global Warming Really Stopped?
By the time the New Statesman closed the blogs associated with these articles they had received just over 3000 comments, many from people who had become regular contributors to a wide-ranging discussion of the evidence for anthropogenic climate change, its implications for public policy and the economy. At that stage I provided a new home for the discussion at Harmless Sky.
Comments are now closed on the old thread. If you want to refer to comments there then it is easy to do so by left-clicking on the comment number, selecting ‘Copy Link Location’ and then setting up a link in the normal way.
Here’s to the next 10,000 comments.
Useful links:
Dr David Whitehouse’s article can be found here with 1289 comments.
Mark Lynas’ attempted refutation can be found here with 1715 comments.
The original Continuation of the New Statesman Whitehouse/Lynas blogs thread is here with 10,000 comments.
Robin, re your #869, tomorrow’s Guardian debate should be definitely one to remember; I’ve got my ticket and it looks like they’re selling quite quickly. Has anyone else read Fred Pearce’s book The Climate Files, by the way? I got a copy last week and have just finished it; will probably post initial thoughts on it later.
Alex (#901):
It should be – but I haven’t read Pearce’s book. I’ll be interested to hear your views.
BTW, if you can contact TonyN, he’ll give you my mobile number so that, if you’re interested, we could meet for a beer afterwards.
PeterM
You are asking a bit of a rhetorical question:
Every year the floating Antarctic sea ice recedes in summer and grows back in winter. Satellite records taken since 1979 show that there is a steady net increase in this ice. The latest monthly NSIDC reading (June) shows that this extent was 1.2 million square kilometers or 8.6% above the 1979-2000 mean baseline value.
Sea ice extent is an important factor contributing to surface albedo, but does not affect sea level, since the ice is floating.
The grounded Antarctic ice sheet has been measured on a continuous basis by satellite altimetry from 1992 to 2003. Over this period these studies have shown that the AIS gained around 27 Gt per year of ice mass. More recent shorter term measurements using the GRACE methodology have shown that the 1992-2003 mass gain of the AIS has reversed itself, and the AIS is now losing mass. This is apparently because annual glacial outflow at the coast has become greater than annual snowfall in the interior. Temperatures in the Antarctic (with the exception of the relatively small northernmost Antarctic Peninsula) have become colder in recent years and remain well below the melting point of ice.
Grounded ice changes do not impact surface albedo, since the surface area remains the same, but they do impact sea level.
No one measures “the total amount of ice in the Antarctic”. The measure would be meaningless, even if it existed, for the reasons stated.
Max
Robin #869 and Alex#901
Looking forward to reading your views on the Guardian debate. I hope TonyN gives the subject a thread to itself.
There’s an account of the debate by Latimer Alder at http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/7/10/hsi-in-the-national-post.html?currentPage=2#comments
and at
http://omniclimate.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/report-from-climategate-guardian-debate-with-monbiot-mcintyre-pearce-watson-keenan-and-some-uea-guy/
The Guardian’s own one-sided account is here (video to follow).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/15/uea-hacked-emails-climate-change
and a fairminded account by a warmist blogger is here
http://merryenvironmentalist.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/the-guardian-climategate-debate-verdict-panel-–-exellent-audience-–-childish…/
This debate and the previous GWPF debate are obvious jumping off points for the debate in Britain. Hope for a lively discussion.
I was just browsing one of my favourite sites: http://www.climatescience.org.nz/; (New Zealand Climate Science Coalition), and found this that might be of interest here
750 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of “Man-Made” Global Warming (AGW) Alarm (Posted 26 June 2010) http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
It started in 2009 with comments that added a few more papers and ends with what appears to be a lot more yet to be added to the list as in this comment exchange:
[Jürgen,] I have found 193 papers (2003+) on co2science.org, standing for the existence of a medieval warm period, and also added 6 more papers for 2010. I wrote an article; are you interested – infact it is in german.
[Reponse] Thank you, I am aware of them and may add them if I have time. The ones I added are either frequently discussed or are titled obviously. Feel free to post the link to your article. (4/29/2010)
Max,
You say that “No one measures “the total amount of ice in the Antarctic”.
I thought that GRACE did just that
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/311/5768/1754
Also you say: “The measure would be meaningless, even if it existed, for the reasons stated”
Meaningless? You mean you don’t like it? What about this reason?
“We found that the mass of the ice sheet decreased significantly, at a rate of 152 ± 80 cubic kilometers of ice per year, which is equivalent to 0.4 ± 0.2 millimeters of global sea-level rise per year. Most of this mass loss came from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet.”
But then , unlike you , I’m not claiming to be a climatologist – so maybe you can explain?
PeterM
You wrote:
NO, Peter. You “thought” wrong.
The GRACE measurements have been of the ice mass of the grounded ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET, and NOT a combined measurement of the ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET mass plus the mass of the floating ANTARCTIC SEA ICE.
I have explained to you how both are measured and what they tell us. Refer to earlier posts.
Now to give you a bit more rounded view that you get from merely citing one source using one measurement method (GRACE).
A 2007 study by Shepherd and Wingham cites several recent studies on the grounded Antarctic and Greenland Ice Sheets.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/315/5818/1529
Cited long-term studies using continuous satellite altimetry readings showed that both the AIS and GIS gained net mass over a 10+ year period starting in 1992:
AIS (1992-2002) +42 Gt/year Davis + Li (10 years)
AIS (1992-2003) +27 Gt/year Wingham et al. (11 years)
GIS (1992-2002) +11 Gt/year Zwally et al. (10.5 years; winter season 2002/2003 truncated)
Other shorter term and spot studies during a part of this period showed net mass loss.
After 2002, the GRACE method (to which you have referred) was used to estimate mass loss/gain by measuring the gravitational attraction of the sheets. These measurements have shown larger losses:
AIS (2002-2005) –139 Gt/year (Velicogna and Wahr)
GIS (2002-2006) –227 Gt/year (Velicogna and Wahr)
Shepherd and Wingham conclude:
So a part of the reversal of the 1992-2003 long-term gain in ice mass in both AIS and GIS could be the result of changes in the mentioned physical processes.
Shepherd and Wingham also caution that some of the apparent change may be a result of the change of measurement methodology from satellite altimetry to GRACE.:
How this will actually play out over the next decades is difficult to predict today. Once we have 10+ years of new data (let’s say around 2013) and when we can be sure that the GRACE methodology has been sufficiently de-bugged to give consistent and reliable results, we may know more.
But all of this has absolutely nothing to do with floating Antarctic sea ice extent, which is measured by satellite and reported monthly by NSIDC, and has been expanding steadily since measurements started in 1979.
Hope this has finally cleared this up for you.
Max
Bob_FJ
Thanks for your post with the list of 750 peer-reviewed papers skeptical of the AGW premise.
I had seen a few of these, but that is quite a list!
Will check others out.
Maybe PeterM should also do so to enhance his knowledge beyond the IPCC “mainstream” view.
Max
PeterM
You wrote (906):
Can you point out where I “claimed to be a climatologist” (or did you just make this up)?
Thanks in advance.
Max
Max,
You ask “Can you point out where I claimed to be a climatologist”
It was on the ‘Alligator’ thread a week or so ago.
The mainstream view isn’t just the IPCC. Its the view you can find on every qualified Scientific website of just about every country’s National Science Academy and just about every University in the World. I’d be interested if you could find and show me just one which supports your line. I did have a look myself some time ago and the closest I could find was on Liberty University’s Website which also espoused a line on Intelligent Design!
The people you quote like Christopher Booker and that Scientologist guy who you were quoting at me the other day and whose name I’ve forgotten ( and don’t particularly want to remember!) are into this sort of thing too. It’s all just weird anti-science stuff.
Ah yes its back to things like “750 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of “Man-Made” Global Warming (AGW) Alarm”
Many of these aren’t papers. They are letters. There is a difference, as I’ve tried to explain before. A letter is a discussion document, more latitude is allowed and a reviewer wouldn’t necessarily strike out everything he or she disagreed with.
Some of the Journals are not recognised in the scientific world. Like the so-called “Energy and Environment”. They aren’t proper journals, they’re a bit dodgy, like the Heartland Climate conference.
I’m not sure about “Iron & Steel Technology”, “The Electricity Journal”, and “Irrigation and Drainage” and others which may be straying slightly outside their area of expertise. The last one may be an admirable journal on things like, well, er, “irrigation and drainage”, but I’m not sure it would be the journal of choice for a team of high powered experts who actually knew what they were talking about on the subject of Climatology.
PeterM
To my question:
You replied (910):
Went through the “Alligator” thread in detail. There is no such claim by me, so it looks like you “made it up”, Peter.
Bring the specific quotation by me, if you can, otherwise admit you simply “made it up”.
Awaiting your response.
Max
PeterM
Yep (911). Some of the 750 skeptical studies are “letters”.
But a whole helluva lot of them are peer-reviewed papers in scientific journals, as I am sure you noted.
Don’t use the polemic exercise of harping on the exception while ignoring the rule. Makes you look silly.
Bob_FJ’s post simply points out that the so-called “consensus” is a myth.
Many of the studies are quite interesting, as well.
Max
It was posting #24 “Six munts ago I cudnt evun spell climitologist, and now I are one!”
I’m sure this was meant to be a humorous remark, and I did ask you, without response, if your claim was meant to be a joke, which it is certainly is!
But as the saying goes “Many a true word is spoken in jest!”
PeterM
Here are a few of your “weird anti-science” guys (910), who are rationally skeptical of the “dangerous AGW” hypothesis. Some of these have authored some of the peer-reviewed studies listed in the “750 list” posted by Bob_FJ.
So much for “scientific consensus”! Ouch!
— Dr. Habibullo Abdussamatov, mathematician and astronomer, head of Space Research for the Pulkovo Observatory in Russia
— Dr. Steve Ackerman, Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, University of Wisconsin
— Göran Ahlgren, docent organisk kemi, general secretary of the Stockholm Initiative, Professor of Organic Chemistry, Stockholm, Sweden
— Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia Geologist at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.
— Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu, the former director of both University of Alaska Fairbanks’ Geophysical Institute and International Arctic Research Center
— J.R. Alexander, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Civil Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa; Member, UN Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000, Pretoria, South Africa.
— Dr. Claude Allegre, French Geophysicist
— Dr. Bjarne Andresen, dr. scient, physicist, published and presents on the impossibility of a “global temperature”, Professor, The Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
— Dr. August H. Auer (deceased), past professor of atmospheric science, University of Wyoming, previously chief meteorologist, Meteorological Service (MetService) of New Zealand .
— Donald G. Baker of the University of Minnesota
— Dr. Sallie Baliunas, astrophysicist and climate researcher, Boston, Mass.
— Dr. Timothy F. Ball, environmental consultant, former climatology professor, University of Winnipeg, Canada
— Dr. Romuald Bartnik, PhD (Organic Chemistry), Professor Emeritus, Former chairman of the Department of Organic and Applied Chemistry, climate work in cooperation with Department of Hydrology and Geological Museum, University of Lodz, Lodz, Poland
— Dr. Colin Barton, B.Sc., PhD, Earth Science, Principal research scientist (retd), Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
— Vladimir Bashkirtsev, of the Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics of the Siberian Division of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
— Dr. Franco Battaglia, a professor of Environmental Chemistry at the University of Modena in Italy
— Dr. David Bellamy, professor of Geography at University of Nottingham
— M. I. Bhat, Professor & Head, Department of Geology & Geophysics, University of Kashmir, Srinagar, Jammu & Kashmir, India
— Dr. Edward F. Blick, Professor of Meteorology and Engineering at University of Oklahoma
— Dr. Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen, Reader, Department of Geography, University of Hull, UK, Editor, Energy & Environment.
— Daniel Botkin, President of the Center for the Study of the Environment and Professor Emeritus in the department of Ecology, Evolution, and Marine Biology at the University of California
— Dr. Simon Brassell, of the Department of Geological Sciences at the Indiana University
— William D. Braswell, computer scientist, Earth System Science Center, University of Alabama in Huntsville, Huntsville, Alabama
— Dr. Paal Brekke – Solar Physicist, specialist in sun/UV radiation/Sun-Earth Connection, affiliated with the University of Oslo, Norway.
— Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society’s Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review
— Dr. David Bromwich, head of Polar Meteorology at Byrd Polar Research Center
— Dr. Stephen C. Brown, PhD (Environmental Science, State University of New York), District Agriculture Agent, Assistant Professor, University of Alaska Fairbanks, Ground Penetrating Radar Glacier research, Palmer, Alaska, U.S.A.
— Dr. Reid Bryson (deceased), the founding chairman of the Department of Meteorology at University of Wisconsin (now the Department of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences)
— Dr. Robert M. Carter, Research Professor at James Cook University (Queensland) and the University of Adelaide (South Australia). He is a palaeontologist, stratigrapher, marine geologist and environmental scientist
— Dr. Phil Chapman, Geophysicist, astronautical engineer and former NASA astronaut, served as staff physicist at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
— Dan Carruthers, M.Sc., Arctic Animal Behavioural Ecologist, wildlife biology consultant specializing in animal ecology in Arctic and Subarctic regions, Alberta, Canada
— Dr. Robert.M. Carter, professor, Marine Geophysical Laboratory, James Cook University, Townsville, Australia
— Dr. Christopher L. Castro, a Professor of the Department of Atmospheric Sciences at the University of Arizona **
— Dr. Arthur V. Chadwick, PhD, Geologist, dendrochronology (analyzing tree rings to determine past climate) lecturing, Southwestern Adventist University, Keene, Texas, U.S.A.
— Dr. George V. Chilingar, Member, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow President, Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, U.S.A. Section, Emeritus Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.
— Dr. John Christy of the University of Alabama in Huntsville and NASA
— Dr. Petr Chylek, adjunct professor, Dept. of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax
— Dr. Ian D. Clark, Professor, isotope hydrogeology and paleoclimatology, Dept. of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa, Canada
— Dr. Paul Copper, FRSC, professor emeritus, Dept. of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University, Sudbury, Ont.
— Piers Corbyn, MSc (Physics (Imperial College London)), ARCS, FRAS, FRMetS, astrophysicist (Queen Mary College, London), consultant, founder WeatherAction long range forecasters, London, United Kingdom
— Dr. William R. Cotton of the Department of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University
— Dr. Richard S. Courtney, climate and atmospheric science consultant, IPCC peer reviewer, Founding Member of the European Science and Environment Forum, UK
— Dr. Susan Crockford, (Zoology/Evolutionary Biology/Archaeozoology), Adjunct Professor (Anthropology/Faculty of Graduate Studies), University of Victoria, Victoria, British Colombia, Canada
— Dr. Robert E. Davis, a Professor at University of Virginia, a former UN IPCC contributor and past president of the Association of American Geographers
— Willem de Lange, MSc (Hons), DPhil (Computer and Earth Sciences), Senior Lecturer in Earth and Ocean Sciences, Waikato University, Hamilton, New Zealand
— Dr. David Deming, (Geophysics), Associate Professor, College of Arts and Sciences, University of Oklahoma, U.S.
— Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, Environmental Scientist and founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group
— Dr. James DeMeo, (University of Kansas 1986, Earth/Climate Science), now in Private Research, Ashland, Oregon, U.S.A.
— Dr. Art V. Douglas, former Chair of the Atmospheric Sciences Department at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska
— Dr. David Douglass professor, Department of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Rochester
— Dr. Robert W. Durrenberger, former Arizona State Climatologist and President of the American Association of State Climatologists, Professor Emeritus of Geography, Arizona State University; Sun City, Arizona, U.S.A.
— Freeman Dyson, professor of Physics at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton
— Dr. Don J. Easterbrook, Emeritus Professor of Geology, Western Washington University, U.S.
— Dr. Hugh W. Ellsaesser, physicist/meteorologist, previously with the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Calif.; atmospheric consultant.
— Hans Erren, Doctorandus, geophysicist and climate specialist, Sittard, The Netherlands
— Dr. Chris Essex, Professor of Applied Mathematics, University of Western Ontario – focuses on underlying physics/math to complex climate systems.
—- Dr. Cal Evans, Geochemist a prominent researcher who has advised the Alberta Research Council, the Natural Sciences, and Engineering Research Council of Canada
— Dr. David Evans, worked for the Australian Greenhouse Office from 1999 to 2005, building the carbon accounting model that Australia uses to track carbon in its biosphere for the purposes of the Kyoto Protocol. He is a mathematician and engineer, with six university degrees including a PhD from Stanford University.
— Dr. John T. Everett, a former National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) administrator and UN IPCC lead author and reviewer
— Dr. Sören Floderus, (Physical Geography, Uppsala University), coastal-environment specialization, Copenhagen, Denmark
— Dr. Neil Frank, former director of the National Hurricane Center
— Dr. Patrick Frank, Chemist
— Dr. Stewart Franks, PhD, Associate Professor, Hydroclimatologist, University of Newcastle, Australia
— Dr. Oliver W. Frauenfeld, research scientist at the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences Division of Cryospheric and Polar Processes at the University of Colorado
— Dr. Chris de Freitas, climate scientist, associate professor, The University of Auckland, N.Z.
— Dr. Eigil Friis-Christensen is the director of the Danish National Space Centre
— Ivan Frolov, the head of Russia’s Science and Research Institute of Arctic and Antarctic Regions
— Dr. Gordon Fulks, (Physics, University of Chicago), cosmic radiation, solar wind, electromagnetic and geophysical phenomena, Corbett, Oregon, U.S.A.
— Dr. Serge Galam, director of research at the National Center of Scientific Research (CNRS) and member of a laboratory of Ecole Polytechnique
— Dr. R. W. Gauldie, Research Professor, Hawai’i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, School of Ocean Earth Sciences and Technology, University of Hawaii at Manoa
— Dr. David Gee, Geologist and chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, currently at Uppsala University in Sweden
— Dr. Lee C. Gerhard, Senior Scientist Emeritus, University of Kansas; former director and state geologist, Kansas Geological Survey
— Dr. Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Institute Professor at Rensselaer (RPI) in Troy, New York
— Dr. Robert Giegengack the chair of Department of Earth and Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania
— Dr. Fred Goldberg, Adj Professor, Royal Institute of Technology (Mech, Eng.), Secretary General KTH International Climate Seminar 2006 and Climate analyst and member of NIPCC, Lidingö, Sweden
— Stanley B. Goldenberg Atmospheric Scientist at the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA
— Dr. Mel Goldstein, PhD in Meteorology, Meteorologist on Connecticut’s TV News Channel 8
— Dr. Sergei Golubchikov, Vice President of Russia’s National Geocryological Foundation
— Dr. Wayne Goodfellow, (Earth Science), Ocean Evolution, Paleoenvironments, Adjunct Professor, Senior Research Scientist, University of Ottawa, Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
— Dr. Vincent Gray, expert reviewer for the IPCC and author of The Greenhouse Delusion: A Critique of ‘Climate Change 2001,’ Wellington, New Zealand
— Dr. William Gray, Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU)
— Dr. Kenneth Green, Chief Scientist, Fraser Institute, Vancouver, BC – expert reviewer for the IPCC 2001 Working Group I science report.
— Dr. Keith D. Hage, climate consultant and professor emeritus of Meteorology, University of Alberta
— Dr. Charles B. Hammons, (Applied Mathematics), systems/software engineering, modeling & simulation, design, Consultant, Coyle, Oklahoma, U.S.A.
— Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy
— Dr. Howard Hayden, PEmeritus Professor of Physics, University of Connecticut
— Ross Hays, Atmospheric Scientist, NASA Columbia Scientific Balloon Facility, Palestine, Texas, U.S.A.
— Wilco Hazeleger, a senior scientist in the global climate research group at Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institure
— Dr. James A. Heimbach, Jr., BA Physics (Franklin and Marshall College), Master’s and PhD in Meteorology (Oklahoma University), Prof. Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences (University of North Carolina at Asheville), Springvale, Maine, U.S.A.
— Dr. Ben Herman, past director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics and Head of the Department of Atmospheric Sciences at the University of Arizona,
— Dr. Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, researcher in the Institute of Geophysics at the National Autonomous University of Mexico.
— Dr. Martin Hertzberg, a retired Navy meteorologist with a PhD in physical chemistry
— David Holland, member of the UK’s Institution of Engineering and Technology. Trained and qualified as an electrical engineer, he worked in the computer industry from 1970. He has followed the scientific debate over the human contribution to global warming for many years, and given evidence on it to the House of Lords and Stern Review.
— Douglas V. Hoyt, senior scientist at Raytheon (retired) and co-author of the book The Role of the Sun in Climate Change; previously with NCAR, NOAA, and the World Radiation Center, Davos, Switzerland 2
— Warwick Hughes, a New Zealand earth scientist living in Perth
— Dr. Ole Humlum, Professor, Department of Physical Geography, Institute of Geosciences, University of Oslo, Oslo, Norway
— Craig D. Idso, faculty researcher, Office of Climatology, Arizona State University and founder of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Climate Change
— Dr. Sherwood B. Idso, President, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, AZ, USA
— Dr. Olafur Ingolfsson, a professor from the University of Iceland
— Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist and UN IPCC Scientist
— Yury Izrael, the director of Global Climate and Ecology Institute, a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences and former UN IPCC Vice President,
— Terri Jackson, MSc MPhil., Director, Independent Climate Research Group, Northern Ireland and London (Founder of the Energy Group at the Institute of Physics, London), U.K.
— Albert F. Jacobs, Geol.Drs., P. Geol., Calgary, Alberta, Canada
— Dr. Hans Jelbring – Wind/Climate specialist, Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics Unit, Stockholm University, Sweden. Currently, Manager Inventex Aqua Research Institute, Stockholm.
— Terrell Johnson, B.S. (Zoology), M.S. (Wildlife & Range Resources, Air & Water Quality), Principal Environmental Engineer, Certified Wildlife Biologist, Green River, Wyoming, U.S.A.
— Bill Kappel, BS (Physical Science-Geology), BS (Meteorology), Storm Analysis, Climatology, Operation Forecasting, Vice President/Senior Meteorologist, Applied Weather Associates, LLC, University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, U.S.A.
— Dr. Olavi Kärner, Research Associate, Dept. of Atmospheric Physics, Institute of Astrophysics and Atmospheric Physics, Toravere, Estonia
— Dr. Madhav Khandekar, former Research Scientist Environment Canada; Editor “Climate Research” (03-05); Editorial Board Member “Natural Hazards, IPCC Expert Reviewer 2007
— Dr. Leonid F. Khilyuk, Science Secretary, Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, Professor of Engineering
— William Kininmonth M.Sc., M.Admin., former head of Australia’s National Climate Centre and a consultant to the World Meteorological organization’s Commission for Climatology
— Dr. James P. Koermer, a Professor of Meteorology and the director of the Meteorological Institute at Plymouth State University
— Prof. Dr. Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Academician, Counsellor RAS, Research Centre for Ecological Safety, Russian Academy of Sciences and Nansen International Environmental and Remote Sensing Centre, St.-Petersburg, Russia.
— Jasper Kirkby, experimental particle physicist at CERN, author or co-author of some 250 scientific publications
— Dr. Gerhard Kramm of the Geophysical Institute at the University of Alaska Fairbanks
— Gary Kubat, BS (Atmospheric Science), MS (Atmospheric Science), professional meteorologist last 18 years, O’Fallon, Illinois, U.S.A
— Dr. George Kukla, a research scientist with the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University 2
— Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.
— Dr. A.T.J. de Laat, who specialized in atmospheric composition and climate research at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute
— Dr. Peter Landesman, PhD in Mathematics from City College of New York, specialized in solving complex differential equations and author of The Mathematics of Global Warming
— Dr. Christopher W. Landsea , NOAA’s National Hurricane Center who served as a UN IPCC writer
— Dr. Willem de Lange, Dept. of Earth and Ocean Sciences, School of Science and Engineering, Waikato University, New Zealand
— Dr. Douglas Leahey, meteorologist and air-quality consultant, Calgary, Canada
— Dr. David R. Legates, Director, Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware, U.S.
— Dr. Jay Lehr, BEng (Princeton), PhD (environmental science and ground water hydrology), Science Director, The Heartland Institute, Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A.
— Dr. Marcel Leroux, Professor Emeritus of Climatology, University of Lyon, France; former director of Laboratory of Climatology, Risks and Environment, CNRS
— Edward Liebsch, BS (Earth Science & Chemistry), MS (Meteorology, Pennsylvania State University), Senior Air Quality Scientist, HDR Inc., Maple Grove, MN, U.S.A.
— Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, PhD, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Dept. of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, U.S
— Dr. Peter Link, BS, MS, PhD (Geology, Climatology), Geol/Paleoclimatology, retired, Active in Geol-paleoclimatology, Tulsa University and Industry, Evergreen, Colorado, U.S.A.
— Dr. Philip Lloyd, Nuclear Physicist and Chemical Engineer and UN IPCC co-coordinating lead author
— Dr. A.J. Tom van Loon, Professor of Geology (Quaternary Geology), Adam Mickiewicz University, Poznan, Poland; former President of the European Association of Science Editors
— Dr. Anthony R. Lupo, Associate Professor of Atmospheric Science, Dept. of Soil, Environmental, and Atmospheric Science, University of Missouri-Columbia, U.S.
— Dr. Horst Malberg, Professor for Meteorology and Climatology, Institut für Meteorologie, Berlin, Germany
— Dr. Richard Mackey Statistician authored a 2007 peer-reviewed study which found that the solar system regulates the earth’s climate. The paper was published August 17, 2007 in the Journal of Coastal Research
— Augusto Mangini of the University of Heidelberg in Germany
— Dr. Björn Malmgren, Professor Emeritus in Marine Geology, Paleoclimate Science, Goteborg University, retired, Norrtälje, Sweden
— Galina Mashnich of the Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics of the Siberian Division of the Russian Academy of Sciences,
— Dr. John Maunder, Climatologist, former President of the Commission for Climatology of the World Meteorological Organization (89-97), New Zealand 2
— Dr. Alister McFarquhar, international economist, Downing College, Cambridge, U.K.
— Dr.Fred Michel, PhD, Director, Institute of Environmental Sciences and Associate Professor of Earth Sciences, Carleton University, Canada
— Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, research professor of environmental sciences, University of Virginia 2
— Dr. Daniel W. Miles, a former professor of physics who earned his PhD from the University of Utah
— Dr. Ferenc Mark Miskolczi, atmospheric physicist, formerly of NASA’s Langley Research Center, Hampton, Virginia, U.S.A.
— Dr. Asmunn Moene, Former head of the National Forecasting Center, Meteorological Institute, Oslo, Norway
— H. Michael Mogil, a 30-year veteran of NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), who is certified by the American Metrological Society and currently owns the “How the Weatherworks” consulting firm
— Dr./Cdr. M. R. Morgan, FRMS, climate consultant, former meteorology advisor to the World Meteorological Organization. Previously research scientist in climatology at University of Exeter, U.K.
— Dr. Dick Morgan, former director of Canada’s Met/Oceano Policy and Plans, a marine meteorologist and a climate researcher at both Exeter University and the Bedford Institute of Oceanography
— Dr. Nils-Axel Morner, emeritus professor of paleogeophysics & geodynamics, Stockholm University, Stockholm, Sweden
— Dr. Lubos Motl, physicist, former Harvard string theorist, Charles University, Prague, Czech Republic
— Dr. Tad Murty, former senior research scientist, Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans, former director of Australia’s National Tidal Facility and professor of earth sciences, Flinders University, Adelaide; currently adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa
— Dr. John Nicol, Physics, (Retired) James Cook University, Chairman – Australian Climate Science Coalition, Brisbane, Australia
— David Nowell, M.Sc., Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, former chairman of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa, Canada 2
— Dr. James J. O’Brien, Professor Emeritus, Meteorology and Oceanography, Florida State University, U.S.
— Dr. Peter Oliver, BSc (Geology), BSc (Hons, Geochemistry & Geophysics), MSc (Geochemistry), PhD (Geology), specialized in NZ quaternary glaciations, Geochemistry and Paleomagnetism, previously research scientist for the NZ Department of Scientific and Industrial Research, Upper Hutt, New Zealand
— Dr. Cliff Ollier, Professor Emeritus (Geology), Research Fellow, University of Western Australia
— Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem 2
— Dr. Garth W. Paltridge, atmospheric physicist, Emeritus Professor and former Director of the Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies, University of Tasmania, Australia
— Dr. R. Timothy Patterson, Professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences (paleoclimatology), Carleton University, Canada
— James A. Peden, Atmospheric physicist formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.
— Dr. Al Pekarek, Associate Professor of Geology, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences Dept., St. Cloud State University, Minnesota, U.S.
— Dr. Roger Pielke, Sr., presently senior scientist at the University of Colorado in Boulder
— Dr. Ian Plimer, Professor of Geology, School of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Adelaide and Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne, Australia
— Dr. Roger Pocklington, Ocean/Climate Consultant, F.C.I.C., Researcher – Bedford Institute of Oceanography, Nova Scotia.
— Daniel Joseph Pounder, BS (Meteorology, University of Oklahoma), MS (Atmospheric Sciences, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign); Weather Forecasting, Meteorologist.
— Dr. Brian Pratt, Professor of Geology, Sedimentology, University of Saskatchewan, Canada
— Dr. Andreas Prokoph, adjunct professor of earth sciences, University of Ottawa; consultant in statistics and geology
— Dr. Tom Quirk, MSc (Melbourne), D Phil, MA (Oxford), SMP (Harvard), Member of the Scientific Advisory Panel of the Australian Climate Science Coalition, Member Board Institute of Public Affairs, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
— Dr. VK Raina, India’s leading Glaciologist
— Dr. Denis G. Rancourt, Professor of Physics and an Environmental Science researcher at the University of Ottawa,
— Dr. Paul Reiter, professor, Institut Pasteur, Unit of Insects and Infectious Diseases, Paris, France. Expert reviewer, IPCC Working group II, chapter 8 (human health)
— Erich Roeckner of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology
— Dr. R.G. Roper, Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology, U.S
— Dr. Curt Rose, BA, MA (University of Western Ontario), MA, PhD (Clark University), Professor Emeritus, Department of Environmental Studies and Geography, Bishop’s University, Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
— Rob Scagel, M.Sc., forest microclimate specialist, principal consultant, Pacific Phytometric Consultants, B.C., Canada
— Dr. Tom V. Segalstad, PhD, (Geology/Geochemistry), Head of the Geological Museum and Associate Professor of Resource and Environmental Geology, University of Oslo, Norway
— Dr. Vladimir Shaidurov of the Russian Academy of Sciences
— Dr. Gary D. Sharp, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, CA, U.S.
— Dr. Nir Shaviv, one of Israel’s top, young, award-winning scientists
— Glen Shaw, a Professor of Physics at the Geophysical Institute at the University of Alaska Fairbanks
— Dr. Joanne Simpson, Atmospheric Scientist and PhD in meteorology and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”
— Dr. S. Fred Singer, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia and former director, U.S. Weather Satellite Service 4
— Dr. Vaclav Smil, FRSC, Distinguished Professor of Geography; specialization in climate and CO2, University of Manitoba.
— Hajo Smit, Meteorologist and former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.
— Dr. G LeBlanc Smith, a retired Principal Research Scientist with Australia’s CSIRO
— Dr. Willie Soon Harvard-Smithsonian Center Astrophysicist.
— Dr. Oleg Sorochtin of the Institute of Oceanology at the Russian Academy of Sciences
— Dr. Roy W. Spencer, PhD, climatologist, Principal Research Scientist, Earth System Science Center, The University of Alabama, Huntsville, U.S.
— Dr. Walter Starck, (Biological Oceanography), marine biologist (specialization in coral reefs and fisheries), author, photographer, Townsville, Australia
— Dr. Hans von Storch, the Director of Institute for Coastal Research of the GKSS Research Centre, a professor at the Meteorological Institute of the University of Hamburg (deceased)
— Dr. Arlin Super, PhD (Meteorology), former Professor of Meteorology at Montana State University, retired Research Meteorologist, U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Saint Cloud, Minnesota, U.S.A.
— Dr. Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London — Henrik Svensmark Danish National Space Centre
— Dr. Gordon Swaters, Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Research Group, University ofAlberta
— Dr. Elwynn Taylor, Professor of Meteorology at Iowa State University and a former project scientist with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration
— George Taylor, Dept. of Meteorology, Oregon State University; Oregon State climatologist; past president, American Association of State Climatologists
— Dr. Peter Taylor, environmental science analyst (formerly for UN), author of “Chill – an assessment of global warming theory”
— Dr. Hendrik Tennekes, ormer Director of Research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute
— Dr. Frank Tipler, Professor of Mathematical Physics, astrophysics, Tulane University, New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A
— Dr. Edward M. Tomlinson, MS (Meteorology), Ph.D. (Meteorology, University of Utah), President, Applied Weather Associates, LLC (leader in extreme rainfall storm analyses),
— Dr. Eduardo Tonni, Paleontologist of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata
— Dr. Anton Uriarte, professor of Physical Geography at the University of the Basque Country in Spain
— Dr. G. Cornelis van Kooten, professor and Canada Research Chair in environmental studies and climate change, Dept. of Economics, University of Victoria
— Dr. Gerrit J. van der Lingen, geologist and paleoclimatologist, climate change consultant, Geoscience Research and Investigations, New Zealand
— Dr. Jan Veizer, professor emeritus of University of Ottawa
— Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico
— Dr. Chris Walcek professor at the University at Albany in NY and a Senior Research Associate at the Atmospheric Sciences Research Center
— Dr. Gösta Walin, PhD in Theoretical physics, Professor emeritus in oceanography, Earth Science Center, Göteborg University, Göteborg, Sweden
— Dr. Fred Ward, who earned his PhD in Meteorology from MIT and is a former meteorologist for Boston TV
— Dr. Charles L. Wax, PhD (physical geography: climatology, LSU), State Climatologist – Mississippi, past President of the American Association of State Climatologists, Professor, Department of Geosciences, Mississippi State University, U.S.A.
— Dr. Edward J. Wegman, Bernard J. Dunn Professor, Department of Statistics and Department Computational and Data Sciences, George Mason University, Virginia, U.S.
— Dr. Bruce West, A U.S Army Chief Scientist
— Dr. Forese-Carlo Wezel, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Stratigraphy (global and Mediterranean geology, mass biotic extinctions and paleoclimatology), University of Urbino, Urbino, Italy
— Dr. Richard C. Willson of Columbia University’s Center for Climate Systems Research
— Dr. Ian Wilson of the University of Southern Queensland, Australia, specializes in statistical analysis and astrophysics research, and was a former operations astronomer at the Hubble Space Telescope Institute in Baltimore, MD
— Dr. Boris Winterhalter, senior marine researcher (retired), Geological Survey of Finland, former professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, Finland
— Dr. David E. Wojick, PhD, P.Eng., UN IPCC Expert Reviewer, energy consultant, Virginia, U.S.
— Dr. Rafael Wust, Professor Marine Geology/Sedimentology, James Cook University
— Dr. Miklós Zágoni, Physicist and environmental researcher
— Dr. Antonio Zichichi, president of the World Federation of Scientists and a retired Professor of Advanced Physics at the University of Bologna in Italy
— Stan Zlochen, BS (Atmospheric Science), MS (Atmospheric Science), USAF (retired), Omaha, Nebraska, U.S.A.
— Dr. Jeff Zweerink of the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA)
Now, understand this: a large list of scientists (or scientific organizations or university administrations) who either support or do not support a particular hypothesis (or premise) is absolutely no scientific evidence to validate or falsify that premise. This requires empirical data, as Robin and I have emphasized to you repeatedly.
But the above list kicks the “consensus” myth (to which you like to refer) in the head.
Max
PeterM
Re ur 914.
Duh!
Grow up and stop making stuff up.
Max
Max,
That quote about being a “climitologist” is still there for all to see. No need to make it up! Maybe you are getting forgetful in your old age? It can happen.
I think you are trying too hard in listing all these luminaries of denierworld. It makes you look too desperate. Its a tactic going back to to the 60’s and 70’s when we had lists of surgeons and medical specialists who were supposedly critical of the consensus on the risks of smoking.
But what’s Ian Plimer doing in there? Weren’t you critical of several glaring errors in his recent book and were hoping he was going to fix them up. I thought you’d quietly forgotten about him!
PeterM (917)
Yes, it sure is, and anyone except an utter fool can see that this is not a serious claim of “being a climatologist” but simply a requote of a famous saying attributed to “inguniers”.
So drop that silly line of argumentation, Peter. It makes you look like an utter fool (even if you are not really one).
Now to your “cherry-picked” example of Ian Plimer (out of a list of over 200 scientists, who have openly spoken out against the “dangerous AGW” hypothesis).
Professor Plimer, a geologist, is twice winner of Australia’s highest scientific honor, the Eureka Prize, and is professor at the School of Earth and Environmental Sciences at the University of Adelaide and Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Melbourne.
His book “Heaven and Earth” describes in great detail how Earth’s climate has changed over the geological past, how these changes had nothing to do with atmospheric carbon dioxide, how mass extinctions have occurred in our distant past, how natural factors have determined past and recent changes in our climate and why it is, therefore, unlikely that humans are affecting our climate in any significant manner by combusting fossil fuels.
There were a few minor technical errors in his book, but none of these distracted from his basic message and the science supporting it.
Max
PeterM
What is it now?
“Consensus” among “most” of the “mainstream” “scientists”, “universities” and “scientific organizations” was a big thing for you, a “myth”, which you repeated over and over again as evidence that the “dangerous AGW” hypothesis must be correct.
Now it is no longer important that over 200 scientists have openly spoken out against the “dangerous AGW” postulation, and that this “consensus” obviously does not exist.
As I wrote in 915:
Got it?
Max
Max,
Maybe you’d like to tell us about Ian Plimers ” few minor technical errors”. I know you are a stickler for accuracy so you’ll want to get them straightened out:-)
Ian Plimer is obviously a scientist of ability yet on global warming he seems to have thrown out everything he has learned over the years and even the basic principles he would have taught his undergraduates. The most basic of which is to reference your claims. Yet his book is riddled with unreferenced claims. And yet even when it is pointed out to him that he has failed to do this he provides no further comment. It is quite a mystery.
Are these your climatologists Pete?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25387
Brute,
I’m very pleased that you’ve at last accepted what the IPCC have to say. I hope you aren’t picking and choosing as to what bits you like and what bits you don’t! I suspect you might be.
True, we don’t know everything but if you read NASAs website:
http://climate.nasa.gov/
You’ll learn more science than you ever will on Fox TV. You’ll learn that sea levels have risen 57mm , which is over two inches, since 1993, and that works out at over three mm per year.
2010 looks to be shaping up as, possibly, the hottest year on record.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/294773
It might be worth remembering the original question posed in the title of the blog, going back to NS days: “Has Global Warming Stopped?”
It looks like the answer is now a pretty definite ” No, it hasn’t”
Peter 922
As we have pointed out numerous times, many of the IPCC calculations compare apples with oranges, none more so than with sea level data.
The material you quote is satellite data from 1993 that are splced onto tidal gauge measurements of an extremely dubious global provenance.
HS will only take a short number of links so this is around 5 of my 20 link sequence on this subject. It is vital to look into our recent past also, when sea levels at various times in the last 2000 years have been as high or higher than today.
This is the latest IPCC assessment which confirms sea level calculations from 1993 are by satellite.(page 5 onwards)
Link1
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-spm.pdf
The sea level calculations rely on an enormous number of variable factors including pressure, location, tides, warmth of oceans, structures, storms, wave heights, surges, stasis, location of the gauge/sensor, slope of the underlying strata etc. The accuracy of measurements is said to be 3cm (10 times the level of the alleged annual rise) but in reality is often vaguer than that because of the inherent difficulties of measuring. Observed real world sea levels generally simply do not show the rate of increase suggested by the IPCC (although this varies enormously from place to place for reasons cited above)
Link 2 The document below was written by many of our old friends including Phil Jones and Mike Hulme-page 19 gives the sea level data
http://ukclimateprojections.defra.gov.uk/images/stories/trends_pdfs/Trends_section1&2.pdf
The information for historic sea levels was ‘extended’ from a paper by one of the scientists at Proudman
Link3
http://www.pol.ac.uk/ntslf/products.php
Link 4 This is reconstruction of sea level data from 1700 of three extremely incomplete Northern Hemisphere records from which IPCC extrapolate their figures, take them to be a global figure and splice them on to the satellite records
Link 5 .
http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/author_archive/jevrejeva_etal_1700/
These three are taken to represent global figures since 1700-much data missing and subsequently interpolated.
Amsterdam from 1700 (Van Veen 1945)
Liverpool since 1768 (Woodworth 1999)
Stockholm since 1774 (Ekman 1988)
It says there are differences even in the same ocean basin between tide gauges of up to plus or minus 6cm rendering their use for a global record to be irrelevant
tonyb
PeterM
You wrote (920):
An Aussie (I believe) named Enting took a long-winded pot-shot at Plimer’s book when it came out.
http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/plimer1a6.pdf
Turned out that most of his critiques were either wrong or simply nit-picks (e.g. about the “accuracy” of charts, etc.).
There were a few real errors, which you and I have discussed. One concerned the “natural GH effect of CO2”, which he overstated. There was one on the relative amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes versus humans, where it appeared (at first glance) that he got it way wrong. But (since Plimer is a geologist, who should know a bit about this subject) I thought I would check this one out a bit closer. It turns out that if one includes the estimated CO2 emissions from ALL underwater volcanoes and fissures (most of which disappears into the ocean), Plimer is probably right.
But we went through most of that last August/September, Peter, and there is no point repeating it all here.
One of the best lines in his book can be found on pp. 461-462:
Really tells it all, Peter.
Max
PeterM
TonyB points out on sea levels:
Further to what Tony has stated in his post, below is a graph of the Proudman tide gauge data, to which he refers, showing the observed multi-decadal swings in sea level change rates over the 20th century, with a very gradual deceleration trend over the century), plus several independent estimates of the average rate over the period 1993-2003, i.e. the period where IPCC “spliced” satellite altimetry readings covering the entire ocean except coastlines and polar area (which cannot be measured) onto the tide gauge record (which measures sea level at selected coastlines).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/3144596227_545227fbae_b.jpg
This “splice” of data derived from two fundamentally different methods covering two entirely different scopes of measurement over two different time periods in order to demonstrate a putative “acceleration” in rate between the two time periods is a bit of “bad science” at best.
Since 1993 the tide gauge record has shown an annual increase around half of that shown by satellite altimetry.
TonyB has pointed out some of the limitations of the tide gauge data.
Two of the NOAA scientists involved with the satellite altimetry data have pointed out that this method has an error rate that exceeds the rate of change itself!
http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU04/05276/EGU04-J-05276.pdf
It appears that more work needs doing before we can put any faith in the sea level data derived from satellite altimetry (and hence in all the ballyhoo connected with this).
Max