This is a continuation of a remarkable thread that has now received 10,000 comments running to well over a million words. Unfortunately its size has become a problem and this is the reason for the move.
The history of the New Statesman thread goes back to December 2007 when Dr David Whitehouse wrote a very influential article for that publication posing the question Has Global Warming Stopped? Later, Mark Lynas, the magazine’s environment correspondent, wrote a furious reply, Has Global Warming Really Stopped?
By the time the New Statesman closed the blogs associated with these articles they had received just over 3000 comments, many from people who had become regular contributors to a wide-ranging discussion of the evidence for anthropogenic climate change, its implications for public policy and the economy. At that stage I provided a new home for the discussion at Harmless Sky.
Comments are now closed on the old thread. If you want to refer to comments there then it is easy to do so by left-clicking on the comment number, selecting ‘Copy Link Location’ and then setting up a link in the normal way.
Here’s to the next 10,000 comments.
Useful links:
Dr David Whitehouse’s article can be found here with 1289 comments.
Mark Lynas’ attempted refutation can be found here with 1715 comments.
The original Continuation of the New Statesman Whitehouse/Lynas blogs thread is here with 10,000 comments.
Link 7
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/274/5292/1503
Link 8
http://earth.usc.edu/~stott/stott%20papers/Newton%20et%20al.,%202006.pdf
Link 9
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2002/2001GL014580.shtml
http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/CookPalmer.pdf
Link 10
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_nzcave.php
Link 11
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l3_barrowstrait.php
Link 12
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_pigmybasin.php
Link 13
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_perushelf.php
Link 14
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_cariacobasin.php
Link 15
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_lakeerie.php
Link 16
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_chesapeake.php
Link 17
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_gripsummit.php
Link 18
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_jamtland.php
Link 19
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_tsuolbmajavri.php
Link 20
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_polarurals.php
Link 21
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_altaimountains.php
Link 22
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l1_nwspain.php
Link 23
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l2_ameryshelf.php
Link 24
http://www.c3headlines.com/2009/12/paleoclimate-scientists-find-proof-of-medieval-warming-in-waters-off-the-bahamas-climategate-scienti.html
Link 25
http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/132.pdf
http://www.kolumbus.fi/boris.winterhalter/EnEpreprintFeb03.pdf
A new paper by McIntyre McKitrick and Herman (MMH2010) looks as if it might be the lethal injection which will finally put AGW out of its misery. See
http://climateaudit.org/2010/08/09/mckitrick-et-al-2010-accepted-by-atmos-sci-lett/
Briefly, the “hotspot” in the lower tropical troposphere predicted by the hypothesis of CO2-driven warming has so far proved elusive. A paper which made it into the last IPCC report (Santer et al 2008), examining the data up to 1999, suggested that the error bars were sufficiently large that the hotspot might be present, but hidden in the noise. The new paper reworks the Santer paper, using updated data, and suggests that the error bars do not hide an “invisible” hotspot. No hotspot = hypothesis refuted.
Here’s my point. Unless MMH10 is utterly wrong, it’s bound to make it into the next IPCC report, due out in 2014. And the media will be bound to report it, along the lines of: “the science is no longer as certain as we thought it was”.
If the IPCC is a normal scientific body, this won’t matter. Scientists correct their conclusions all the time. If, however, the IPCC is an agenda-driven political body, a lot of people are going to be very unhappy. Imagine working on a 3000 page report for nothing (lead authors are not paid) knowing that you’re wasting your time. At the end of four years, your favourite theory will be – at best – in serious doubt, and those who held to it so doggedly will be a laughing stock.
It will be interesting to watch the interim reports from the IPCC and their lead authors over the coming months.
Hi Max
Well that all took some reading-a good selection of studies. I thought 1269 was especially apt as it reinforced our discussion on Lamb who clearly believed in the MWP and LIA and whose work is much more thorough than Dr Mann. well done!
tonyb
Max,
25 consecutive posts all in defence of the MWP period being globally warmer than the the current period. You seem to have gone somewhat ‘apeshit’, as my kids would say, over that one. Its obviously very dear to your heart!
Pity you couldn’t do a bit better than references from CO2science.org though. It looks like the Idso’s family business.
* Craig Idso, Chairman
* Sherwood B. Idso, President, (the father of Keith and Craig)
* Keith E. Idso, Vice President
* Julene M. Idso, Operations Manager.
I wonder where their money comes from?
You seem quite confident that mainstream science has disowned Micheal Mann. But last time I asked you were having some trouble finding any references where his hockey stick graph had been retracted.
Have you had any better luck since?
Tonyb,
I’d already posted up this link on the other thread
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Kung-fu-Climate.html
which is where the graphs you were asking about came from. I go to all this trouble of finding information to educate you and, obviously, you don’t even bother clicking on the links to read them! So its not just the younger generation who have a negative attitude to learning!
I was just wondering why Craig Loehl has been prepared to co-operate with someone as unscrupulous as Rob Honeycutt in the way that Rob Honeycutt claimed. But then Rob Honeycutt is probably lying isn’t he?
Of course, Craig Loehl will have written in point out just where Rob Honeycutt has gone wrong but I don’t supposed he’d be allowed to post anything by the moderator.
But he’ll probably have been able to post on somewhere like Wattsupwiththat. Have you got a link to his reply?
Pete,
It isn’t too late to get in on the ground floor of a wonderful investment opportunity. Send a cheque to TonyN made out to Brute Incorporated and I’ll invest it here on your behalf………be a “believer” Pete.
Show the world how concerned you are about polar bears….send a cheque today……………operators are standing by.
Climate witchdoctors: ‘Obedient to the Gods of ‘science’…It harks straight from our stone age tribal era’
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/08/lewandowsky-the-abc-parades-a-witchdoctor-again/